EDIT: I've made some edits to the original article to better focus on my disagreement with TSW's post rather than hold the entire Ladies... blog responsible for her opinions.
When I first read The Starter Wife's post on the lack of paid female sports bloggers, I was extremely sympathetic. Anyone who knows my blog or anything about me knows I've been strongly behind getting talented female bloggers and athletes more attention. From the beginning of this blog, I've pushed for more female and minority sports bloggers. Just in the last month, I linked to Stephanie's smart post on the Fanhouse, asked Natalie of NeedforSheed to do a guest post on Valentine's Day, funneled a story where I felt a female athlete was being unfairly treated to The Big Lead, and wrote a Blogger Valentine entry praising three of my favorite female bloggers. I don't do this with an agenda, either. I didn't even e-mail the women featured in Blogger Valentine to tell them I had featured them, because I didn't want it to be taken the wrong way.
Then I went home and thought about how TSW was essentially accusing the paid blogger outfits of discriminating against female writers, and I realized there were some hidden angles to this story. I thus decided to contact TSW for a Rhetorical Questions Interview. The results are below.
MCB: Hello TSW, and thanks for the time. I want to tell you that I strongly agreed with the content of the essay you wrote. However, it raised some questions for me that I was hoping you'd answer. First, you yourself have been a well-known blogger and commenter for some time, and were once part of the Ladies..., an extremely popular blog in its heyday--it was the rare minority-run blog that got heavy coverage from bigger blog sites. Can you tell me about how many female or minority bloggers you tried to interviewed during that time, or featured in an attempt to share traffic with other worthy female or minority sports bloggers? Or, can you tell me how many female athletes or sportswriters you profiled or interviewed, besides a short-lived feature called "Will you listen to what they're saying" that talked about female broadcasters?
TSW: "..."
MCB: Great, let's move on to the next question. I think it's important to link to the blogs of female bloggers so people know what's out there--in fact, 4 of the 19 sites I link to are run by female bloggers. I took a look at the blogroll of a blog you were associated with, and was impressed by the number of sites the group linked to. The blog linked to 50 sports blog sites! Can you give me a count of how many of those sites were written by female sports bloggers? Well, let's put it this way--was the number greater than 2 out of 50, or 4%?
TSW: "..."
MCB: Your writing and those of others in blogging with you has gathered numerous Deadspin.com links. I've also received a fair amount of e-mails from you all mass-mailing new entries to other bloggers. Did you ever think of telling Deadspin.com "That's fine, Will, but we don't need another link. How about linking to Babes Love Baseball or another female blog instead?" Or, did you think about promoting another female sports blogger via e-mail, instead of your own site?
TSW: "..."
MCB: You might argue that I just don't understand the goals of the sites you've been involved with. You just did what was best for your site at the time, and there were no similar sites around. How, then, do you explain ignoring Sports Squee, a female sports blog older than yours, that did much the same thing as the site you were associated with did, and yet managed to link to many more female blogger sites?
TSW: "..."
MCB: Well, enough about your promotion of female sports bloggers; it might be unfair of me to criticize you for what you didn't do. Let's talk about about what you did do. Females have often complained about the tendencies of male sports bloggers to objectify hot females through pictures and video, and I've strongly agreed with them. For example, in your essay, you quoted Nola Chick as saying "Sure we don’t put up pictures of hot chicks in bikinis everyday or yet another shot of Erin Andrews’ boobs poking through a sweater, but does that really mean we should be disqualified from the possibility of blogging with the boys?" And I totally agree with Nola Chick that putting up pictures of half-clothed people should not be a pre-requisite for popularity. Thus, how did you avoid posting pictures of partially-clothed individuals in your blogging to help set a positive example to change the conversation? To show that exploiting half-naked people is unnecessary for personal popularity?
TSW: "..."
MCB: You know, unfortunately, there's a completely unfair stereotype out there that all female sports fans are interested in is watching the hot guys and cooking up a storm in the kitchen. It's ridiculous, and it's a shame some men still think this stereotype is true. How did the features you've written work to combat this stereotype instead of reinforce it?
TSW: "..."
MCB: Ok, just one last question, and I thank you for your time. Can you estimate for me just how much good you and the blogs you were associated with failed to do for female sports bloggers by making it seem as if all female sports fans cared about were baseball player butts and reinforcing stereotypes? Can you tell me just how many months or years you and some of your fellow female bloggers set back the cause of female sports bloggers to be taken seriously as intelligent students of the game or witty analysts?
TSW: "..."
Thanks for the interview! It's really good that TSW is holding mainstream bloggers accountable for not hiring more female sports bloggers, after having done so little when she had opportunity to for years. If TSW is really serious about gaining respect for female bloggers, why isn't she linking to more female sports bloggers? Why not squeeze in a few more posts about the actual games in-between the ranking of athlete's behinds? Why not change the tone of the conversation so that when a female blogger writes a post about the QB you want to be "in charge of your team", it's 90/10 whether you're serious or using a sexual euphenism, as opposed to the 10/90 ratio you're running now?
In my opinion, the blog TSW was associated with had an excellent chance to build a strong platform to promote the best of the female sports bloggers. When I suggested that blog try to appeal to a broader audience and work in some content to appeal to men too, I was laughed at. Who's laughing now? Sadly, none of us are, because I would have loved to see more female bloggers get paid too. But it's not happening, and given the Rhetorical Questions interview, The Starter Wife can't pretend to be part of the solution when she clearly was a part of the problem. I would like to see her confess her own blogging mistakes in not promoting her colleagues before attacking mainstream paid blogs for their own omission of female bloggers. And did TSW and others actually asking people like Ness, the Mottrams, Brooks, and Leitch for the opportunity to write? And asking them why they aren't hiring? It's not fair to smear such sites without giving them the opportunity to defend themselves.
Unfortunately due to my long, documented history of supporting female bloggers, I can't be easily branded as a sexist pig the way the essay attempted to imply about mainstream paid blog sites. But I'm willing to put up with flaming comments on this post, even if some of my female blogger friends feel a need to flame me to keep solidarity (while quietly realizing I'm right) and if some never talk to me again for taking on TSW. Why?
Because I genuinely want my female blogger friends like Sooze and the crew at Babes Love Baseball, Leave the Man Alone, Kristine, Yankees Chick, 2Michelles, Becky, and Stephanie at the Fanhouse to get the respect they deserve as women and as writers. And I think that so far, the major female-written sports blogs are standing in their way in deed, while paying lip service to the cause of female sports bloggers. Prove me wrong. Support your sisters in blogging in deed, not just in word. Build a female blogger network that gets so much traffic that mainstream sites fall over themselves competing to pay you and beg you to write for them. And I'll be happy to write a post 6 months later about how wrong I was, and how I misunderstood you. I would love to do that, but I can't do it now.
Thursday, March 6, 2008
Response to "Is There a Sports Blogging Glass Ceiling" Post
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No More Love for MCBias,
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18 comments:
I liked this post, especially the format you used to convey your points (clever).
Now one point to add, to deflect a bit of the blame away from Ladies...: They were just following the lead of KSK, right? Now, say what you want about KSK, but a couple of those guys have gone on to bigger, high profile gigs. In fact, most of them have had no problems getting gigs - BDD, Caveman, Unsilent, and now Christmas Ape.
How many of them really know anything about sports? I give Unsilent some credit for knowing a bit about boxing. The rest aren't exactly "experts", though, right?
Those guys all got gigs because they are funny as hell (well, at least BDD is). So why shouldn't the Ladies be held to the same standard. In other words, their biggest problem might be that they weren't knowledgable in their sports enough, and not entertaining enough, either. I'm just offering up a possibility, that's all.
And I do agree with the basic premises that more female sports bloggers are needed, and also that The Ladies did a poor job of looking out for anyone else.
Someones sleeping on the couch tonight
SML, thanks for the kind words. You may be misreading what I'm saying. The Ladies... do know a lot about sports--probably more than me, to be honest. But for some reason, they played that part of the site down. I'm not saying they don't have every right to post about whatever they want. But I'm saying, there were consequences to that.
My opinion is, the Ladies... moving so far away from the mainstream sports conversation has created a perception that all female sports bloggers are on the fringe, and that's definitely hurt female sports bloggers. I mean, imagine if I, as a Republican, used most of my posts on here to opine on gun control, that dastardly liberal Charles Barkley, and how Deadspin loves the left. Would I have any right to then turn around and blame the mainstream for not making me a paid blogger?
Although I'm no fan of mainstream big blogs, I feel that they are being unfairly judged here. Look at the Fanhouse--Jamie told me 1/7th of their writers were female a year ago. Will recruits females to write on Deadspin, too, on occasion--TSW's doing the book review. Progress should be made in promoting female sports bloggers, but I'm not sure this is progress. I hope so, though...
Oops, sorry--original breakdown on Mottram's comment was "1/6th are female or minority."
Just to clarify, I wasn't putting down the Ladies' knowledge of sports, or their entertainment value. I was offering up another possibility, which is: they might not be getting love because they played the "female KSK" role, and that limited their opportunities. Like you state in the post, if they had pursued a more mainstream approach, maybe they could have open more doors up...
I like to come here because you add, among other content, things that are strictly associated with the nuance of the blogging counterculture. I don't participate in the counterculture much, but given what I do, I can't keep it out entirely. I read this piece and said, F*** yeah, thats how bloggers should discipline each other. They should be called out for their indiscretions and held accountable. Good Job. I often wonder about whether or not there is female blogger out there who likes to sit in her house and break down tape of route running and blocking techniques in her free time. If she could cook a pork chop worth a damn I might leave my gal for her. My gal only evaluates defense.
Is it wrong to agree with both posts?
The issue here doesn't seem to be the message so much as the messenger, or rather the actions of said messenger.
I do enjoy the Ladies... site. As a female sports fan I can't help but have some of the same thoughts about some of the male athletes. However that's not to say that I have no other opinions on the game itself.
The site probably doesn't help the female sports blogger cause but it does provide an outlet for the less specifically game related discussion for which other outlets exist.
If you're a female expecting to make a living (or get paid at all) by blogging about then a site like Ladies... probably hurts you. I suppose the question then becomes would a similar site by male bloggers affect thier "careers" in the same way? I suspect not.
Thanks for your opinion, JTS. Hmm, you should have written this blog instead of me, ha. That's exactly my problem; the actions of the messenger aren't matching the words in that essay.
And I don't like it when the male sports bloggers use photos of hot women too much, either. For the record, I have also gone after male blogs for focusing too much on female skin rather than on the game. http://mcbias.blogspot.com/2007/08/blogging-laws-i-like-to-break-part-3.html
I'm torn. As a female sports blogger, I mostly just want to be taken seriously as a sportswriter, regardless of gender. So far, I think I've accomplished that. And part of me wonders whether female bloggers should feel the need to support others of their kind, because it's not like the men support one another just because they all happen to have a penis.
That said, obviously there are far fewer women out here in this "business" and there are good writers who might not get the readers they deserve, just because some men might not think a chick can write about sports. So maybe it's necessary for women to help one another in any way possible (assuming they like each other's writing--you don't want to help someone solely because of gender, right?).
I don't write the way Ladies... does. I have zero interest in commenting on the hotness factor of men in sport. But that doesn't mean I begrudge them the niche they've found. A lot of women aren't only interested in sports for the men, but some are, and they have a right to write about it if that's their choice.
I have no idea where the middle ground is. But the first eight comments are from males (I think), so I thought a woman should get up in this mess.
Erin
www.beantownwest.com
I wrote the "Glass Ceiling" piece on my own blog well after I left Ladies, and it is unfair for him to hold that site accountable (and therefore leading to continue in the comments) for something I posted.
McBias seems to have real problems separating me as a writer from Ladies , which the place that his issues seems to be with. (Which in itself had eight very distinct voices.)
Look at the posts I pointed as what I was proud of at the one year anniversary.
http://blackandgoldtchotchkes.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/492/#more-492
How our parents shaped our love of sports. The Friday Football Foodie. Liking sports as a woman. Saying the NFL was all show and little action for Breast Cancer Awareness month. Interviewing Curtis Granderson. Just hanging out with the Ladies.
I only pointed to Tomlin as being cute (which I am not ashamed of), and the Fantasy Football draft, which was a group post. (And supposed to play into the comical idea of the stereotype that women only cared about the QBs.)
I think he has an ax to grind with the rest of the site, which was always clear in our About page. http://ladiesdotdotdot.wordpress.com/about/).
So I ask all of you to please hold this to my actions. It is not fair to drag seven other people into this discussion who didn't ask for it.
Damn blogger.
One year post.
It's just like society...the rich get richer and the poor get poorer for a reason. While I've made my own futile attempts to help along female bloggers, it's going to take a female, or a group of females to start their own 'good old girls group' to help out the female blogger population. The Ladies....had an opportunity (apparently, as I read in this piece) and passed numerous times over. That's a shame.
By now, since the 'blogdome' moves so quickly, there should be/have been women in charge of major blogging sites if they are really wanting to do this. It's not happening because they aren't making it happen. You have to help yourself.
There are enough good/great female bloggers out there and enough female readers out there to make a difference.....they just need to start pushing people around a little bit if they want to make a difference as a whole.
I don't like to blame people for holding others back. Take responsibility, stop blaming others for where you are in life and get to where you want/think you should be.
I suppose I could start an all female blogging network, but is it wrong that I don't want to? I just want to write, and I'm not all that interested in starting something like that, because it obviously then is about more than just the writing, and all about the novelty or gimmick of having only female writers. If I were to start my own network of bloggers, it would be about getting the best writers. No doubt that some of them would be women, but they wouldn't all be.
Anyway, I like my current network. And I don't think I'm treated like "one of the guys." I think I'm just treated like another writer, albeit one who can occasionally offer the female perspective when it's necessary.
Erin, thanks for writing. JTS is a female blogger too; it's not just been women.You actually have many female blogger colleagues--I've noted at least 100 female sports blogs in my Internet blog travels. I'd be happy to send you the list if you want.Don't feel guilty about not wanting to start a network; that's fine, as long as you don't criticize the networks of others.
TSW, thanks for coming in here and defending yourself in a genuinely classy manner. I know it can't be fun to read such posts. I don't think it's polite of me to argue with you further in the comments; I've already had my say. So I'll let the reader make up their mind on how your points affect what I already said.
General points:
TSW won't be the first blogger I criticize, nor the last. Last week, you can read my criticism of MJD, and the week before, it was LZ Granderson. Earlier this month, I went after Rick Chandler of Deadspin.com. I only criticize the best and most influential bloggers; no picking on the cripples here.
This blog has inspired a little more emotion than I would have liked. I made my points, and TSW and any other Ladies who were affected have had their chance to respond and judge if my argument had any merit. Thus, I will delete this post over the weekend sometime (or earlier, if necessary). There's no need to let an intellectual debate, intense though it may be, degenerate into personal animosity, and I won't let that happen (further?). Thank you all for sharing your opinions.
There is already a female network among hockey fans called hlog. Each blogger represents a different team and everyone gives their opinion on hockey related issues. It's more than doubled since I joined right after I started SportSquee and it's expanded into other sports and a lot of us have good relationships and linking with male bloggers, too as a result.
And there is Draft Day Suit which has multiple bloggers of both genders writing for it.
I don't think a network is absolutely necessary, but I also think that it's an easy way to find new sites that you or your readers would enjoy.
I also think that most professional bloggers (maybe not Page 2) are great writers. And I'm not convinced they wouldn't hire a female blogger if they were convinced she was a great writer. Having a female opinion can only bring in a wider audience. I can't imagine rejecting the idea of of hiring a great writer just because she's a chick.
hlog.blogspot.com
ronmexicosblog.blogspot.com
For the record, I know there are a lot of female bloggers out here. I was just referring to the comments here. I didn't realize JTS is of the fairer sex. My apologies. And I feel like I just got admonished for something I didn't do, since I never criticized other networks. And since I didn't, I'm not sure why it was necessary to tell me not to.
Erin, my apologies. I did not mean to imply you had done such a thing. It's late, and I'm tired by now.
Interesting stuff. The glass ceiling analogy left me wondering though, what defines "success" in the blogging world? Especially since most bloggers never get paid, anyway.
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